At a breakfast hosted by the Democratic State Committee, congressional candidate Camille Abate mentioned to Democratic National Chairman Howard Dean that she is running for Congress against Scott Garrett.
“He’s the worst,” said Dean.
But despite Dean’s personal opinion, national Democrats apparently don’t think enough of it to pump many resources into a fight against him. The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee announced that they have three targets in 2008, and Garrett isn’t one of them.
But if you ranked the remaining three Republican incumbents in terms of vulnerability, there’s a good chance Garrett would be next in line.
"Congressman Garrett had made it clear that his only loyalty is to the President,” said Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee spokeswoman Carrie James, who cited his similar positions to the Bush administration on Iraq, stem cell research and the State Children’s Health Insurance Plan. “We believe that Congressman Garrett is a pick-up opportunity for Democrats in 2008."
The fifth district has a population dominated by the northern portion of Bergen County, which accounts for 63 percent of the district’s votes. The staunchly conservative Garrett, however, has an anchor of support in rural Sussex and Warren counties, which make up the biggest chunk of the district.
But Democrats haven’t gained much traction there. In 2004, Anne Wolfe lost to Garrett by 15.5 points. In 2006, a strong Democratic year, James E. McGreevey’s former press secretary, Paul Aronsohn, still lost by eleven points.
Still, the spread is close enough that some Democrats think that if the conditions are just right – if the Bush backlash continues to grow – then they could see a strong Democratic Presidential candidate bringing a Democratic congressional candidate to victory on his or her coattails. But if Giuliani’s is the presidential nominee, forget it.
“If Rudy Giuliani is on top of the ticket, that’s going beneficial to Republicans,” said one Democratic insider from the district.
Already, two Democrats – Abate and Dennis Shulman, a Rabbi and psychologist -- have announced their intentions to challenge Garrett. But Democratic sources aren’t jumping at the opportunity to throw money behind either of them. Aronsohn, citing financial reasons, decided not to run again.
And while some are confident that Garrett could soon be vulnerable, Democrats struggle to think of a candidate who they think can take him on. So far, no serious contender has risen to the challenge.
"Scott Garrett won reelection by double digits in the midst of the worst political environment in history. To make matters worse for Democrats, the second tier opponent they recruited has dropped out. Scott Garrett is a well positioned incumbent who couldn't be any tougher to beat,” said National Republican Congressional Committee spokesman Ken Spain.
But there are some people out there who Democrats feel could be decent challengers.
There’s Bergen County Executive Dennis McNerney, who’s popular throughout the county. But McNerney has downplayed the idea of running in 2008, if not explicitly closing the door on the idea. Another potential candidate could be Sheriff Leo McGuire, who’s expected to coast to re-election this coming November. A countywide, law-and-order candidate like him may be one who could challenge Garrett – if he can raise the money. But like McNerney, McGuire is cool to the idea.
“As difficult as it is to run for Sheriff, which I’m glad to do because I think that the fruits of our labor are being seen across the county, I can’t imagine how hard it would be to run across four counties,” said McGuire. “I have no intention or plans to run for the fifth Congressional district, to be short and sweet.”
Paramus Mayor James Tedesco is also a possible candidate. He was unavailable for comment.
That leaves Abate to wonder why party insiders aren’t taking her candidacy seriously. Especially when shortly after last year’s election, the Cook Political Report rated the seat as a “potentially competitive” R + 4.
Abate has been dismissed by Democratic insiders as too liberal to compete in this suburban and rural district. But she says it’s just the opposite – her predecessors positioned themselves as moderates, trying to compete with Garrett on defense and business issues. She thinks that her clearer stances could motivate the liberal Democratic base to get out and vote, and that recent polls showing New Jerseyans supporting some form of universal health care and a withdrawal from Iraq back her up.
And today Abate was in a circle of people posing for picture and shaking hands withliberal icon Howard Dean as he hobnobbed with State Democratic Chairman Joseph Cryan.
“It’s like dark beer and light beer. If you’re a real beer person you choose the dark beer,” said Abate.
But Abate did try to run last year, losing the primary to the more moderate Aronsohn. Abate attributes this loss to her jumping into the campaign “out of heart,” without much time or money. This time, she says, she’s ready.
“I have talked to party leaders in the state and I’ve talked ot union leaders in the state and a number of people who I consider political insiders, and I have a lot more support than you think I have,” said Abate. “They’re waiting to see how much money I can raise.”
Wolfe, the Democrat who ran against Garrett in 2004, thinks differently. She’s writing a book about her experience running called So You Want to be a Challenger. Wolfe said that a winning candidate will have to be a fiscal conservative and social moderate in a district where the geography favors Republicans.
Wolfe hasn’t ruled out another run against Garrett. But perhaps, she said, a Republican would have a good shot against him in a primary.
“It’s getting more possible for a more moderate person to win. If I were a Republican I would be seriously thinking of challenging Scott in the future,” said Wolfe.
Assemblyman David Russo, who lost the 2002 GOP primary to Garrett, actively considered a rematch two years later, but eventually declined. Some Republicans suggest that Russo could run again.
David P. Rebovich, managing director of the Rider University Institute for New Jersey Politics, said it’s possible that Garrett’s conservatism – like his vote against the recent SCHIP bill, could harm him.
“The too conservative theme might be potent in 2008 in a way that it has not been before,” said Rebovich. “I don’t think the Democrats will attract conservative Republicans. What the democrats can hope for is a high turnout election which brings out lots of unaffiliated voters to send a message – a retrospective message to President Bush and to the national Republican Party.”
Garrett could not be reached for comment.
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Garrett cannot be beat.
Camille Abate has no chance of beating Garrett.
The Rotarian has a better chance.
Someone to the left of Cindy Sheehan will not beat an incumbent in a right-of-center district.
She is more to the left than Garrett is to the right and that's why she's basically unelectable.
Only a moderate to conservative Democrat can compete with Garrett outside of the Bergen portion of the district.
This is not Berkeley or Greenwich Village.
When the Democrats wise-up and run someone credible like Mayor Tedesco, then the Democrats will have a fighting chance.
The only way I see Garrett
The only way I see Garrett going is if he gets primaried and defeated..but no republican will want to mess with his seat anymore and the crazies with attitude will come out and get their people out..
not happening
Potential top tier Democrats are avoiding this race like the plague. No amount of rhetoric or wishful thinking doesn't change the strong Republican -- or dare I say conservative -- nature of this district.
The only chance to beat Garrett is in a primary, and that is a stretch at best.
No changes here until at least 2012.
Thank you for the *yawn* analysis.
Only moderate to conservative democrats HAVE been competing against Garrett...and not very well either. That tired,faded, unimaginative way of thinking about political races as being contests between points on a political spectrum is insulting to people who care about actual issues.....I believe these folks are called
"Voters".
Maybe for once we could actually focus in on the campaign and the issues instead of sitting back like so many faceless cyber philosophers doling out political hot air.
All over the country in '06 democrats who nobody gave much of a chance won seats from republican Bush apologists and war supporters. If they had subscribed to your frightened way of looking at politics, the republicans would still be in control of both houses. Garrett can be beaten, but not by yet another pathetic "Moderate".
Dean is te worst
he is an anti-American socialist weirdo who is not fit to shine Scott's shoes. I hope this "woman" as no children to carry on her demented and warped genes
No
Garrett cannot be beaten.
But he can be forced to use resources and defend his turf with money and talent that would otherwise be used elsewhere. He should be challenged and challenged hard to be sure the Republicans are spread so thin they can't mount a credible challenge elsewhere.
As for Bill Conservative, that's some trenchant political commentary. It really explains why Conservative (not lowercase conservative) policies almost always fail when enacted.
On the question of Garrett
Putting aside for a moment the question of whether a Democratic congressional candidate can beat Garrett -- and with the right financial support, a crumbling Republican infrastructure in district 5, and a continued anti-Republican sentiment in the country in 2008, it isn't out of the realm of possibility -- I want to inquire whether those who consider themselves Republicans on this site share Garrett's beliefs or whether they think, like I do, that he is a true extremist, with positions that favor fundamentalism over science and prejudice over social and racial inclusion.
To wit, I would venture that most Republicans in the state don't agree that a raped woman should be forced to bring the fetus from conception to birth, as Garrett does, and I don't think there is a general clamor to change the U.S. Constitution to make gay marriage illegal, as Garrett favors. Garrett has one of, if not the single-most, environmentally-unfriendly record of any U.S. congressman, with a Sierra Club rating of "0," as well as low ratings from other environmental organizations.
He voted against funding for Katrina victims, and he voted against reauthorization of the voting rights act, landmark legislation that provided political enfranchisement for minorities. Garrett also is a strict creationist, believing the earth was created in seven days, and has voted against hate crime legislation bills that most Democrats and Republicans supported.
This surely does not represent the views of the majority of state residents, much less state Republicans. I would encourage Abate or whomever to keep the pressure on Garrett, who is blight on our state and deserves defeat.
Well...
that's a sweet handbag.
Can Democrats beat Garrett?
Can Democrats? Maybe
Can Camille Abate?
Nope, especially if the Bergen TARs have anything to say about it.
The ignorance of the left is only trumped
by the arrogance and inability to run a successful campaign in the 5th CD.
What qualifies Abate for municipal council much less Congress?
She has no base of support and can't raise any money, but she and her "Code Pink" buddies think the DCCC should waste hundreds of thousands of dollars into a unwinnable venture?
A Moderate is EXACTLY what can win.
Russo is a MODERATE. But what liberals don't understand is that CONSERVATIVES are the MAJORITY in this district.
What can't win is whining, hysterical liberals like Abate who can't raise a nickel and thinks the district is craving for a Cindy Sheehan wanna be to represent them in Congress.
It will NEVER happen. Garrett is sleeping good these days knowing the BCDO has zero interest in taking him out. They could raise $2 million dollars and still lose the election!
Ferriero and the BCDO doesn't care about this congressional seat because it doesn't yield patronage to the organization.
What he said
"But what liberals don't understand is that CONSERVATIVES are the MAJORITY in this district."
so I'm just praying someone like Russo or O'Toole could primary him, but I really don't even think they can sadly get enough people out while those RHINO hunters will get people out in primaries if it's just a CD.
I loved it when Garrett somehow got a following of college kids after his youtube moment a few months ago...apparently nobody clued them in that this is the same man who voted against reauthorizing the voting rights act. Someone explain to me just what was the logic behind that outside of Mr. Garrett being racist??
Garrett Is An Embarassment...
...to the people of the 5th district, the state of NJ and the whole nation!
This is a man who would have our kids in public schools indoctrinated with creationism! Garrett would bring us back to the era of the "Scopes Monkey Trial". He frames it as "Intelligent Design" being taught "side by side" with actual science but the effect is to teach a particular fundamentalist theological doctrine in a public school.......and that's just plain un-Constitutional.
He actually voted against Hurricane Katrina relief, the minimum wage and the SCHIP program!!!!!!!!
Garrett would even force a woman that was raped to come to full term against her will! This is New Jersey folks; not Afghanistan!!!
As a Christian myself I give thanks to a loving compassionate and merciful God that Garrett represents a small extremist fringe in this Congress. A nation in which Congress was dominated by Scott Garrett clones would yield us an America which would be unrecognizable to the vast majority of us.
There are two main reasons this right wing radical is still in office:
I look forward to more Democratic candidates announcing followed by a series of numerous informative/exciting debates (that focus on the questions of what's wrong with Scott Garrett); and in which candidates compete on the basis of offering positive alternatives to Bush/Garrett policies.
WHEN the Democratic party unites after a constructive energizing exciting primary; Garret will be history.
From Frederick Douglass
Stop with the phony war rhetoric.
Hillary Clinton has more positions on the war in Iraq than there are "chins" in a Chinese pone book!
What is the Democratic solution to Iraq? Didn't they vote yes to construct a $360 million dollar Iraqi embassy? Are the Democrats stopping the construction of permanent military installations? Have they closed down GITMO?
I'm tired of the phony, fraudulent Democratic rhetoric.
The DISTRICT IS OVERWHELMINGLY CONSERVATIVE AND REPUBLICAN! They supported Schundler in the 5th over McGreevey!
There is no evidence a Democrat can even marginally compete here.
But go ahead, run Camille Abate. Garrett will have a field day with Hillary heading the ticket. Add Pelosi to the mix and you have threesome of liberal incompetence...
Nick Lento
"Garrett would even force a woman that was raped to come to full term against her will! This is New Jersey folks; not Afghanistan!!!"
And may God have mercy on YOUR soul................
MadMax...Thanks For Your Sincere Prayers!
I need all the help I can get!!! :-)
From Frederick Douglass
Demsanddonts, Iraq Surely Isn't....
....going to help Garrett; and on every other issue Garrett is a loser.
There is no good reason to vote for Garrett. Can anyone name any?
All any Democrat has to do to beat Garrett is to get the folks in the 5th to actually consider the issues and to have them take a close look at Garrett's record/positions. A tall order to be sure; but possible.
From Frederick Douglass
Liberals underestimate Garrett
Garrett will never lose in this district to a Democrat or any Republican. His strength is that he's voted against Bush's big government agenda -- Katrina, NCLB, Prescription Drugs and earmarks in Congress.
Hopefully the left will continue to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to beat Garrett.
The answer is no.....
atticas - I also agree, nice man-purse...
Abate...
Could not win outside of Tenafly, I doubt she'd even win her hometown of Glen Rock which went for Aronshohn, Wolfe and Sumers. She is a true hard-line Bergen Grassroots hippie who might dip below 20% outside of Bergen.
Passaic County Freeholder Terry Duffy of West Milford, a conservative Democrat, would be the best person they could put forward for this seat. It would be quite a race.
Liberal myopia
People like Lento are the best cheerleaders for Garrett.
They really believe Garrett is the extremist when Lento is the true extremist.
If people like Abate were in Congress she would be calling for a nuclear freeze with Dennis Kucinich and would never authorize the military to take action under any circumstances.
She is a 100% appeasement candidate. She is to 2008 what Henry Wallace was to the country in 1948.
People like Abate think we can negotiate with terrorists. It's scary someone so out-of-touch would actually be considered for congress by the Code Pink Democrats.
Mountaintop Says.....
>>>>>Liberals underestimate Garrett
Garrett will never lose in this district to a Democrat or any Republican.<<<<<<<
Never? That's a long time!
>>>>>>>His strength is that he's voted against Bush's big government agenda -- Katrina,<<<<<<
Sending aid to the victims of Katrina was a good thing....what was bad was that Bush gave it away to corrupt private contractors who stole the money. In your world all government is "big". The fact is that if there were no government; you would be reduced to living in a "MadMax" world in which life would be brutal and short for everyone.
>>>>>NCLB,<<<<<<
So you think "No Child Left Behind" is a bad idea? Do you really think that the people of the 5th are that inhumane? Could it be implemented better and cheaper? Yes, so fix it, don't nix it!!!
>>>>>Prescription Drugs<<<<<<
Again, the problem/devil was/is in the details the Bush program was a legal license to steal for the drug companies......but Garrett was/is simply too cheap/heartless/meanspirited to want any seniors to get any relief from rapacious drug companies.
>>>>>and earmarks in Congress.<<<<<
On this we can all agree; Garrett is right! But I don't think any likely Democratic opponent will be for maintaining the "earmark" system as it is obviously a corrupt practice.
>>>>>>Hopefully the left will continue to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to beat Garrett.<<<<<<<<<<<<
Frankly, all it takes to beat Garrett is a really positive competitive Democratic primary that brings lots of bright light and excitement to the race. The more people see Garrett clearly and in detail; the less support he will have.
In objective factual terms; Garrett is a loser. His ideology is extremist and his voting record is abominable.
Further his rubber stamp for the Cheney/Bush forever war is another Albatross around his neck. I wonder if Garrett has introduced any legislation to raise taxes to actually PAY for this "forever war"? I think not; he's quite content to keep on printing money and borrowing money to indulge NeoCon fantasies and enrich profiteering "defense" contractors.
But then again, I guess that from Garrett's point of view the world will end and he and all the "good people" will be "raptured" up to heaven on that day; so what does it matter if Bush/Cheney have borrowed trillions to pay for a "forever war"?
From Frederick Douglass
Garrett out of touch
I think Scott Garrett is out of touch with voters in the fifth district. He voted against providing extended unemployment benefits when he first got into office. His views are extremist to NJ voters when it comes to a women's right to choose. He was out in front promoting George Bush's plan to privatize social security. He recently voted against providing health insurance to children who can not afford to be covered. I believe Camille Abate is more in touch with North Jersey voters. This district needs someone who will run as a true Democrat, not a Republican lite. Voters need a clear distinction between a reactionary like Garrett and a suburban mom like Abate. Moderates will find out Abate stands for the constitution and the rule of law. I do not see anywhere where she calls for negotiating with terrorists. This is a typical right-wing smear tactic to build a straw man and attack it. Howard Dean and Abate were correct in opposing the invasion of Iraq. The correct course of action was to go after the terrorists in Afghanistan, not where they were not-in Iraq. Garrett has no problem voting to spend billions more in Iraq while needs and priorities of Americans go unmet. People of all political stripes in this district should look at the record. They will see their interests are better met by Abate than Garrett.
Do you guys know where the 5th is?
This isn't the 10th with the People's Republic of Maplewood. Warren and Sussex are not only the most conservative counties in NJ, they may be among the most East of the Mississippi and North of the Potomac. Moreover, the Democrats who win in Bergen, like a Dennis McNerney, are centrist. Therefore, the only Democrat who has a chance is a moderate or conservative one, not someone who is to the left of Donald Payne and Lorretta Weinberg.
when the choice is Move on.org or Garrett
The voters will pick Garrett every time. NJ may be left but they are NOT SOCIALISTS YET
when the choice is Move on.org or Garrett
The voters will pick Garrett every time. NJ may be left but they are NOT SOCIALISTS YET
Garrett is a Loser.....
.......I've heard no one here actually pointedly defend Garrett on any issues. All you can say is that the 5th is owned by the Republicans and/or that you think his possible oppents are too decent/humane to be elected.
Come on Republicans; tell us precisely what it is you LIKE about Garrett?
Be specific. Which positions/votes of his do you enthusiastically wish to embrace?
Come out, come out...where ever you are!
;-)
From Frederick Douglass
You obviously can't read...
Is Lento just talking to himself?
Look, go post on BlueJersey where if you're a conservative you get bounced by the hysterical liberals who run that site.
Garrett represents the district well. Go find some communist, Code Pink screw ball to run and they will get CRUSHED again...
Crickets Chirping.....
Still no one here is willing to meet the above challenge.
The ONLY reason Garrett is still in office is bcause he's managed to be relatively unknown to the people in his district. He's a stealth candidate.
If, and I admit it's an if, an opponent can actually flush him out of the weeds and into the sunshine...people will be voting against him in droves.
Hell, no one here can even tell me in any precise way what's good about Garrett! And you guys are all old pros, right?
From Frederick Douglass
One Positive..
"Come on Republicans; tell us precisely what it is you LIKE about Garrett?"
.......
uh the guy who works at the 7-11 near me looks sorta like him so everytime I go in there I'm like "Hey It's Scott Garrett!"
If I lived in that district I'd tank my vote every year he came up.
Nick, They Can't So I'll Try...
Garrett supporters fall into three categories: social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and "Anybody but the Democrats" Republicans.
For the social conservative/fundamentalist crowd he's solid: pro-life, anti-stem cell, pro-intelligent design in public schools, anti-gay, etc.
Garrett’s mixed on being a fiscal conservative. Despite the urban myth he voted against the Republican Budgets that ballooned the deficit, he voted for all of them he could. However, he did vote against individual spending bills.
He’s against PAYGO, which helped begin to pay down the deficit when Republicans introduced it. This opposition caused him to vote against the earmark reforms earlier this year. He is a co-sponsor of a bill to slash earmarks to 1% of the budget which is a good thing.
While he supports making the Bush tax cuts permanent, he has voted against 10 years of business tax cuts, cutting interest rates on student loans, and eliminating several guaranteed profit margin schemes for private industry servicing government contracts.
The “Anybody but the Democrats” crowd just doesn’t want to lose the seat. This includes the Main Streeters and Log Cabin crowd.
Fretz, What You Say Makes Sense....
I can see why the first group you list should vote for Garrett. From their perspective he is "good". But I wonder how many of Garrett's votes come from folks who would be turned off if they actually/fully uderstood who/what the core of his supporters are?
As for the second constituency you enumerate; he's a failed hypocrite.
The third may not be so "fixed" as you imagine.....I suspect their numbers are diminishing; but yes, obviously they'll vote Garrett just because he's an "R".
Clearly, it's uphill for a Dem in the 5th; but it's a possible win for a dynamic and strong candidate willing/able to expand the universe of registered voters and who has the chutzpah to let the sun shine in on this old vampire hiding behind the Bible in the dark.
Hey! That sounds like it might make a good cartoon! LOL
Meanwhile, PLEASE can anyone who is a Garrett supporter give me some good reasons to vote for him? The more the better!!! :-)
Thank You!
From Frederick Douglass
Garrett is beatable
This district is on balance a moderate one. Rep Garrett's politics are far out of step with that of mainstream northern NJ voters. He consistently votes contrary to the will of his electorate. Democrats have failed to take this seat because they have run a series of lightweight candidates against Garrett and have not funded their campaigns. It will take both a well-credentialled candidate and support from the national party to make a change here. I think that the candidate's position on the political spectrum is actually less important than his or her resume. Can a Glen Rock Hippie or a part-time Rabbi (or a long-time political operative like Aaronsohn) win the seat? No. But could a senior business leader, former military anti-war, or seasoned politician win? The answer is definitely yes. I've longed to put some money to work to get rid of this guy, but need to see the "product" that can win before I do.
Garrett is beatable
This district is on balance a moderate one. Rep Garrett's politics are far out of step with that of mainstream northern NJ voters. He consistently votes contrary to the will of his electorate. Democrats have failed to take this seat because they have run a series of lightweight candidates against Garrett and have not funded their campaigns. It will take both a well-credentialled candidate and support from the national party to make a change here. I think that the candidate's position on the political spectrum is actually less important than his or her resume. Can a Glen Rock Hippie or a part-time Rabbi (or a long-time political operative like Aaronsohn) win the seat? No. But could a senior business leader, former military anti-war, or seasoned politician win? The answer is definitely yes. I've longed to put some money to work to get rid of this guy, but need to see the "product" that can win before I do.
Garrett is beatable
This district is on balance a moderate one. Rep Garrett's politics are far out of step with that of mainstream northern NJ voters. He consistently votes contrary to the will of his electorate. Democrats have failed to take this seat because they have run a series of lightweight candidates against Garrett and have not funded their campaigns. It will take both a well-credentialled candidate and support from the national party to make a change here. I think that the candidate's position on the political spectrum is actually less important than his or her resume. Can a Glen Rock Hippie or a part-time Rabbi (or a long-time political operative like Aaronsohn) win the seat? No. But could a senior business leader, former military anti-war, or seasoned politician win? The answer is definitely yes. I've longed to put some money to work to get rid of this guy, but need to see the "product" that can win before I do.
Good Challenge Nick Lento
However, I'm not up to it.
I was born in Wantage and still reside there. I know Scott Garrett on a personal level, hence my blog name. Where do I begin?
You have a Wantage resident who has never come to the aid of his own township. His political sites were higher, yet why turn your gack on your own turf?
In fact, he rounded up some puppets to organize a blitz on our public schools. He remained in the background while his staff and brother worked up front to destroy our already struggling schools. They worked to defeat the budget and organized themselves to get another crew of Garrett clowns on the Board of Education. The school has never been the same since. If fact, our district has been humilated in the paper and among educators since Garrett created this mess. Our schools are the butt of many jokes. Thank you Garrett.
As other families struggle to afford their real estate taxes, Garrett pays pennies on the dollar in farm assessment, declaring himself a tree farmer. Come on, whose kidding who.
His staff is large, (although he is currently cutting it down and upgrading staff). Guess it wouldn't look good to the general public if they knew that Garrett purchased a car from taxpayer funds and funds a driver who more than once got confused and thought he was the Congressman. Wingnuts, all of them.
Only lately he has begun to show support to the Republican party in Sussex County. This is typical of Garrett. He doesn't care until it becomes close to the primary. Then he surfaces. Where has he been the last few years? Not helping other Sussex County Republicans that's for sure.
How soon people forget. He ran against Marge Roukema on the premise of "term limits". He won against Marge Roukema on the premise of "term limits". So where is the "honorable" man now? Are term limits not really important any more. The public gets snookered all the time by this greasy politican.
He will begin going to church in a few weeks. He gets born again right around primary time. He is a wackadoodle on issues such as abortion and public education. Rather than fix public schools, he pulls his children out and sends them to private schools. That's our Congressman! The individual voter isn't who Garrett targets, thereby insuring is win. Is this the guy that you want to represent the 5th??